Is Worrying About Sex A Girl Thing?

i must say i got more caught up in the generation scold article and its links than the one you seeded. My god our sexuality is apparently like eggs! good, bad, good, bad, good, bad!

28, single male here, and haven't been in a relationship for going on 5-6 years.

Never was one for casual sex so I guess you could say I've been celibate, but there's been emotional hangups and crap with that. Most of it comes down to me not being gay, but am incapable of finding someone of the opposite sex that I feel comfortable sharing my life with. Women tend to invite all sorts of issues, real or imaginary, into one's life, as well as their insecurities, hang ups, and quite frankly, in this day and age, there's nobody I know, male or female, that isn't with one person now yet is somehow eyeing up every prospective candidate that walks by, looking for the chance for something better.

Do you REALLY think people want to hear my critical opinion on why I find them all to be unworthy candidates, as I go on about their constant complaints of money issues, issues of self esteem, of what I am doing with MY life, (and I'm not even involved with them yet???), the constant habit of relying on me or borrowing this or that, or the.... well, the list goes on.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to be a "good" person, and stay away from the already taken women that show interest in me, I stay away from easy one night stands, and I try like hell not to think sinful thoughts while I get blue balls from the women whom seem to think tight fitting low neck shirts and tight ass jeans are daily wear, and in no way provocative at all....

It's not that appealing a story.

in this day and age, there's nobody I know, male or female, that isn't with one person now yet is somehow eyeing up every prospective candidate that walks by, looking for the chance for something better.

I was married for 21 years BOBtheFish and never once did I do that. When you are really in love, your needs and desires are being met, and you are happy and content... there is no reason to look.

When you are really in love, your needs and desires are being met, and you are happy and content... there is no reason to look.

Yes.

I don't disagree with you Kimberly. I am (was??) very monogamous as well, and believe that that CAN be the case.

BUT, you and I are from two very different times. You're talking about people my mother's age if you've been married 21 years already, and I'm talking people in their 20's today. My dating pool is in some serious need of chlorine.

I know a handful of women who are in open relationships (and believe in polygamy), a woman who is with another man while her husband is overseas in the service, and even a friend of mine has been quite candid in the past about how she uses a pseudonym to write reviews of women's sex toys. And these are people I know on a first name basis. I've also seen pictures of people I know nude on their phones, (in fact, was shown them on one or two occasions), and have lost a few friendships with women whom have been VERY forward about their intentions (without stating them explicitly) whom I simply do not reciprocate said desires towards. (is that clear enough while trying to keep this all semi-PG and newsvine friendly???)

And if it seems like I'm only talking about women here, it's only because I do not pursue the same sex (though I have graciously accepted a few loaded compliments from gay men as well ). I'm quite willing to believe that men are just as bad as the women I encounter.

As for finding someone who like that... well, I've dated in the past, and have been platonic friends with women, that have explicitly told me they are afraid of settling with anyone as they always have the lingering question of someone better coming along.

My opinions do have some personal justification in this matter.

My opinions do have some personal justification in this matter.

Of course they do.

I'm quite willing to believe that men are just as bad as the women I encounter.

I certainly would agree with you on that one. I've seen more men in my circle of friends " trade up" than my female friends.

The sex toys bit isn't a huge deal, but it's kind of a turn off to have someone so openly admit to their habits and put it out into the public. How do you feel about men who have to share their escapades or favored methods of masturbation with you?

As for how you dress, you put too much responsibility on other people. Yes, it's my choice in how I react, and I choose to be gentlemanly, but if you're showing your 'wares off, aren't you also guilty of advertising them a bit too boldly? If a woman dresses like a whore, is it really anybody's fault for calling them such? Or what if I just chose to walk around naked? Why is that illegal? Maybe I should prance around town in a speedo? It isn't my fault how they react....

Even this isn't really the point. It's just a symptom of how sex obsessed our culture in general is.

You're absolutely right about victorian ideas being out of control and overly prudish, but in my opinion, today's society is taking things to just the opposite extreme.

And it's not fun for someone who, yes, has sexual urges, but would rather prefer to put other things ahead of sex. (and god do I come across as some sort of purity pledge super right wing christian with that statement, and I loathe it). Personally, I can't stand it. As it is today, from what I observe, you have two or three dates before you're sleeping with someone, and a week after meeting someone a relationship is considered "official". Within two months, people are cohabitating (usually the girlfriend moves in). You tend to meet people still at bars, or at parties with friends, or if you're desperate or unassuming, on the net. You tend to also find, that both parties are putting on an act to at least get to date three, so neither party is being honest about themselves, and even so, people seriously are lacking when it comes to consideration or manners. I can't even begin to tell you how many people I've seen and how many times I've experienced either cell phone calls during an evening at a restaurant or checking their email, or simply just lacking an understanding on how to behave (christ, now I'm turning into Miss Manners, again, apologies).

The whole thing is sickening. It's not that I can't play the game. I can, and I have on occasion just for fun, (my way of dealing with breakups has always been to turn into a manwhore/tease, which I am NOT proud of), but I can't follow through with it because I honestly do feel halfway through it a sense of self loathing at my behavior, or in the case of someone with bad manners/ no self control, like I'm dating an animal, because quite frankly, monkeys seem to behave better at courtship than these people.

As I see it, the best relationships come from being around someone, developing a friendship over an uncertain period of time (at least a few months to get to know them), realizing how you feel about them, and then choosing to see if they feel the same way. If it works, grand, the world's your oyster, and proceed as feels natural. I don't see the need to rush through it all to get to this goal of "marriage" (which I've never really considered much more than a scrap of paper saying the two of you are joined), and then either wondering "what's next?" or "did I make a mistake?". I don't like the push to be with someone as though it defines you, and in fact, feel that people SHOULD spend a fair amount of time in their lives alone to figure out who the hell they are and what they want (and that's an unspecified period of time too. It can take a year for some, a decade for others). And I think that the most important things to consider in a mate are the following:

1. how do they treat you?

2. how do they treat others?

3. do you share the same values (not the same interests)?

4. do they have any SERIOUS issues that might cause you some serious problems down the road?

5. can you see yourself spending the rest of your life living with this person?

Beyond that, it's all relative, but for me, most people fail at #3 or #4 (and definitely don't make it to#5).

You criticize me way too much and think that I view sex negatively. I don't. I'm selective as hell about my partners, and I try to put value into those choices. I view the general dating pool I have as being extremely free about their sexuality, but also suffer relationship based consequences of their "free love" ideals.

And although I respect your choices, (and the choices others make), I have to admit, it's more because I have no involvement in them and simply wish to keep it that way. I don't think you will ever understand where I am coming from with this, nor can I understand your viewpoint. They're just too radically different.

You ever read "Brave New World"? I feel like the character of John the Savage, a gentleman that refrains from sex, (and gets frustrated when the woman he falls for does not) because of his values. On the other hand, he's in a world where "everyone owns everyone" and there's no hang ups, no values, nothing but the desire to just enjoy whatever anyone feels like doing, and he has no way of really joining in with this society.

As you seemed to have seeded this article, I have to ask, what did you get out of reading about her year of celibacy? Why did you even post this article if you, seemingly, have no real care or concern about being celibate, or why someone might choose it? What was the point?

I don't "blame" women. I said it's a societal thing and men are just as guilty. I just am not attracted to men, which I HAVE stated as why my experience slates more towards experience with women...

I also said that I COULD choose sexuality, and in the past I have.

Why are you selectively reading what I say to put forth your own viewpoint of what my reasons are? Do you think women have absolutely no responsibility for the way they express their sexuality?

Original sin is bull@!$%#. Sexuality IS natural. But we, human beings, typically view ourselves as more than just animals. So what is wrong with my desire to choose my partners with care, rather than debase myself with the senseless rutting and @!$%#ing that most people involve themselves with? Why should I seek out places of drinking and excess, get inebriated, and @!$%# any woman that is willing to spread her legs?

As for women, should a woman just go around @!$%#ing any guy that shows interest? How many women do you know have no real reason to explain why they are in the senseless and debasing relationships they are in? Is the only way a woman can find "love" is in an intoxicated state?

Do you find men that have no manners or talk on their phones with their exes while on a date with you "ideal candidates"?

Or do you think men that are rude to their waiters attractive? How about men who tell you of their wild escapades with a dominatrix? Or that a fleshlight is one of the best investments of their life? Do you find men that obsessively preen and show off their six pack abs offensive? Would you not judge them as being manwhores, when they always are out their flashing their smile?

I would hold these cases to be JUST AS OFFENSIVE and JUST AS UNAPPEALING if I were seeking male companionship. But I'm not.

Therefore my examples use women. It's as simple as that. (see 1.6 and when it is quoted in 1.7. Also see the next to last line in 1.3 where I say, "there's nobody I know, male or female, that isn't with one person now yet is somehow eyeing up every prospective candidate that walks by, looking for the chance for something better." )

By equal measure, I can claim that you seem to have a misandrist streak in your responses.

As an addendum, I would like to point out my position DOES NOT involve religion. I compared my statements as sound LIKE they stereotypical "purity pledge" youths of the christian church but I DO NOT claim to be using a religious standpoint (also see the above for my beliefs on marriage).

Instead, my claim is that if you are rather wanton about your sexuality and intimacy, you don't see it as a rare thing, and therefore there's little VALUE in it. I prefer VALUABLE relationships, hence the term of celibacy, as I do not find in my surroundings, both with my closer friends and my more distant acquaintances, anyone else who seems to have any modicum of self restraint, and most tend to be very self centered. I also point to society's emphasis on free sexuality, which is demonstrable through the above points. You also seem to be picking and choosing for the weakest points to contest and make your arguments, rather than including my examples of polygamy (i'm a monogamous male) and typical observed patterns I see in the way people wantonly choose their mates. These SAME THINGS are mentioned in the article you posted:

"We graduated into the era of the ladette. Boozy, brawling and out of control, the ladette was at least honest about who she was: one of the boys."

"When a man who has been seductively whispering sweet nothings pauses tell you that, by the way, he has no wish to get married again and the children he already has are enough for him — well, it's hard to recapture the mood. If those are things you truly desire, your only option is to turn his embrace into a friendly farewell."

"Anderson leans a little hard on the notion that women want more commitment and less casual sex than men do — there are lots of women who don't want marriage or babies, who don't fall in love when they have sex, and who have only benefited from the (as yet incomplete) sexual liberation of modern life."

"The assumption seems to be that they all just want as much casual sex as possible, and that any system that encourages women to bury their desire for commitment under a desire to please is an awesome system for dudes. This may not actually be the case, and I have to wonder if what seems like growing female anxiety about sex, love, and relationships has a shadow counterpart in the male sphere, where anxiety of any kind is less acceptable to talk about. Imagine a male author writing about taking a break from sex to retool his approach to dating and love — now that would be unexpected."

(to which even this very evening, I was talking with one of my very few male friends, which expressed his own displeasure of the dating scene with 20 something women as being primarily being drunken orgies- there are many more of us that want nothing to do with women who act as the author of your article describe many women being after your "sexual liberation" for the same reasons the author of the book mentions she was frustrated. )

I am NOT justifying rape in any case, no matter how a woman dresses. My point is that if you KNOWINGLY dress provocatively to attract men, (which many women do), and you get a response from men, well...

By the way, I also find women who dress in just jeans and a tee shirt incredibly attractive at times. Why? Because on the rare occasion I see it in an honest form, it's because she's obviously comfortable with herself, and does not show concern about other's opinions. On the other hand, if a woman is wearing a skin tight tee shirt that's three sizes too small and her nipples pointing out for all to see, and jeans that look like she was poured into them then yes, I find her sexually attractive because obviously, that's the result she's going for, and I find her body physically attractive. But I also find her offensive because it's pretty obvious she knows the way she dresses is provocative and that's what she wants.

You completely disregard what I say and place your assumptions on me.

You also seem to have a devil may care attitude about how you actions affect others, as based on your assertions. So basically @!$%# all what you do, it's other people's responsibility to deal with it, or at least that's how you come across.

You skip about 75% of what I say so that it conforms to your opinions.

I have no respect for someone who does not understand that their actions and choices affect others, and that they should be mindful of it. It's reeks of egotism. It's completely childish and infantile to assume so much.

What you seem to be assuming is that men, by their nature, are nothing more than beast who cannot control their sexuality. But this is not true. It's wrong to assume that of men, and yet this is what you are constantly asserting.

Let me give you two stories here:

A few years back, I being celibate as I am, was assaulted in the coffee shop I frequent by one of the female employees that had feelings for me, that I did not reciprocate. I made the point explicitly clear, and afterwards, she did not relent. One of the instances culminated in her say, "look my zipper's down. You can see my crotch." and the proceeded to forcibly display herself in front of me, regardless of which way I turned to get away, and my requests for her to stop.

Was "I", being male, unable to refuse? Was it "my" fault for reacting negatively towards her advances? Was she not being disgustingly forward?

Another instance happened to my male friend, where he went to see an ex of his, which was supposed to be a friendly get together, only to learn that she was trying to seduce him. Was it his fault for turning her away? After all, men "could exercise no control over their own penises".

It's also funny that you think me misogynist when for the most part, my friends have been women. Women I respect because they act respectable. They take responsibilities for their actions, and understand the difference between public and private, which is what my point is about.

If I go around calling people obscenities as my way of being endearing to them, am I not responsible for how they would react?

If I greet a long lost friend by saying "HEY @!$%#NUTS!!!LONG TIME NO SEE!!!", is it their fault for being offended? Or is it polite to say, "Thanks for lettin g me use your computer, you jack ass..." Or calling my significant other "hey slut, get me a drink". (and I would not do this, but once again, it's about the way you present yourself to the public).

Your position on dress is laughable. If you see a man impeccably dressed in a three piece suit, would you not assume them to probably be a well to do businessman? And a man dressed in leather with a harley davidson tee shirt on and covered in tattoos is not a biker?

So why when a woman dresses as a streetwalker, showing off her goods, is she not assumed to be so?

How you dress, and how you present yourself have to do with how you will be perceived and how you are treated in society. Try showing up at a job interview wearing dirty sweatpants and see how often you are well received.

What pisses me off is all of this is being construed from a simple comment about how women dress provocatively, advertising their bodies that was meant to be slightly in jest (at my own expense), is being construed into this ultimate reasoning that men have no self control, whilst women have carte blanche to dress however they wish and blame any negative feedback on the male perceiver.

This is why I call your comments misandrist. You seem to promote a view that men and women are NOT to be judged the same, and that men are typically the guilty party.

You completely disregard my quotes from the article pointing to the very selfsame reasoning that I use as to why I choose celibacy. You seem to latch on to one sentence as though it reveals all truth and then misconstrue my examples to promote your ideas in the best light. It's incredibly offensive.

Bob, quit while your behind, she is right