Depression: the illness that's still taboo

I don't pay too much attention to those that say: "just get over it". "move on". "ur bein' too overly dramatic".

Logical:

It doesn't help how people who don't suffer from chronic depression say it isn't real, that people bring it upon themselves, that they're lazy.

Those that don't have any knowledge of chronic depression need to be taught how those of us who *DO* deal w it on a daily basis have to live, tryin' to keep ourselves safe from the *suicidal depression* that is just a heartbeat away.

People who *THINK* they know, may be "book smart", but if they have not battled it, have no heart smarts... I ignore those folks.

I'm lucky* in that my whole immediate family has had to go through it so they all understand. They and one of my friends are the only reason I'm still alive, and I may not be if I had been born into a different family. In a way, when someone tells me to get over it, I am given more reason to live- not a good reason, it's just my depression turns to anger for a while and I continue on in spite of that ignorant person.

*that sort of luck is also a cruel fate in that all my blessings are curses and vice versa

Thanks, Loretta! It's been a lifelong journey for me, and seems to be strongly genetic for me, too. I've only had a couple of crises like Mark (the guy in the article). One my last term in college - which is pretty much a total loss memory wise, and one about 8 years ago. I had a lot more support the second time through which helped big time with severity and recovery time.

Every day is guesswork. Will I wake up in the morning able to function? Will I be able to get to sleep tonight? Some days are better than others. I just keep looking for joy in the little things.

Loretta:

It seems to run in my family.

There is a genetic component to depression. In other words, yeah, it runs in families.

It is illegal to fire someone based on the fact that they have a mental illness or are diagnosed with one. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen. NAMI, the MHA and ADA, among others are on top of this. Unless you are floridly psychotic or have uncontrolled outbursts or episodes related to a severe mental illness (in which case you probably wouldn't be working anyway), you still would be suffering from a medical problem and it should be treated as such. HR departments...well everyone, needs to be educated about mental illness, especially depression as it's so common learn how to work with it, not against it.

ADad-

If you need or want therapy, there might be a NAMI office near you and they offer free group meetings. www.nami.org

More reinforcement for making sue you stay involved and in control of your treatment - and finding the right therapeutic team.

The cost is often a factor preventing treatment. If you are employed you might be able to afford it, but taking TDK's caution to heart, it can be hard to find the time w/o filing FMLA paperwork and letting your employer know something is up.

Holly: Yeah, I know of NAMI. Not really wanting to deal w groups, right now... maybe in the future.

AKC S: Oh, I'm very involved in my treatment. I *had* a great team and then a few of them went on to other projects:-( I'm retired so no FMLA to deal w...

Wow, that sounds like something more than depression. It was explained to me that wallowing in depressive thoughts will in fact alter the chemical balances in our brain, and I have seen this effect in my own life. Vise versa, it is proven that petting a dog will induce all kinds of positive chemical reactions in the body, in both the petter and the pette.

There are certain physical/mental stimulation things I must do everyday to stay positive, otherwise I would plunge.

There are some people who are hit with depression like a rogue wave. It comes from nowhere without warning, and you don't have time to prevent, or to react to it. It's there and it's too late, you've already been sapped of all energy.

Wow, that sounds like a stroke or heart attack or something.

My psychologist use to catch me sliding down that self-perpetuating fall to hell in some of our sessions. She would tell me I was wallowing in the cesspool of self-pity. She showed me how to spot the indicators, and how to reverse them before they rendered me totally helpless. She was not your conventional kind of shrink, not by a long shot. She saw through my BS even when I couldn’t and she showed me how to control my own life, through my own actions.

“Good food, good exercise and a good mission to live for,” is what she use to tell me. “There-in lies the power of a good life.”

For me, one of the worst things about depression is that things that would normally cheer me up or make me happy, no longer do so.

For me combating it can be pretty damn hard. I have to use a different strategy depending on what triggers the downward spiral, or if nothing triggered it at all.

But I do use the "cry it out" method a lot. I'll purposely think about depressing scenarios or memories until I cry and then I continue doing that until I can't cry anymore. (years ago my psychologist had told me how crying does rid the body of some of the chemicals that you mentioned earlier) I usually cry on my to or from work so that I don't have to let my boyfriend or family see me cry. (I've always hated people seeing me cry and yes I realize people can see me in my car, but I'll likely never see them again so it doesn't matter.) It's hard to explain to them that I'm just crying to feel better, that there isn't something wrong caused by a situation. Even though my family all have clinical depression problems to some degree, they still worry and think that something (not me) is making me cry.

Unfortunately, most of the time I just sleep or play video games as a method of avoidance even though I know it won't make the problems go away. But sometimes it gives me enough of a break to regain a little strength to deal with the problems.

Logical Absurdity:

I use the "cry it out" method too, though generally in my own home. I have certain songs that work well to trigger tears. The funny thing is, medication makes it harder for me to cry. Of course, avoidance is another tried and true method.

Wow, ya know what works for me. Getting drunk and listening to those depressive cow-boy songs. You know the ones where the girl leaves him on a train, just before his truck gets hit killing his dog and stuff. Makes me want to cry but, I’m a man, and men don’t cry. But sometimes I think about mutilating my self and I'll get a tattoo. I sometimes wonder what it is about this suffering and pain that makes us feel alive.

("Why don't men cry? Shame that this happens because crying is one of the healthiest things anyone can do, even men,")

I think it is a state of mind. The projection of the inner-self that one must maintain when facing down an enemy. Emotion of any kind is considered a weakness when confronting any foe, animal or otherwise, and you will be attacked at the first sign of weakness. It’s a sign of how prepared you are to defend yourself and the projection of the inner spirit of fight that will ward off most attackers, just by meaning business in your heart and soul. It shows the potential attacker that you have a plan for self-defense, and it’s that control alone, that will shy away most of them.

And actually having a plan for self-defense and control really comes in handy sometimes, when the bluff doesn‘t work.

10.6 Loretta: I don’t know if I’m lucky or not, but my depression is hormonal and hit with early menopause. I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with me, since I had no trauma in my life and had always been a happy person. And for better or worse, my memory went about the same time, so I can’t remember the emotional impact of old songs – LOL.

Having said that, I worked for a rape crisis center, and every person’s recovery is different, except in that, it’s a journey rather than a destination – one day at a time, which could also be said of dealing with depression.

10.9 Dale: I think that’s the best (most reasonable) answer I’ve ever heard for why men don’t cry. It actually makes sense to me. A lot of women, on the other hand – myself included, start to cry without meaning to, when we’re extremely angry or afraid. It’s definitely something to ponder.

Yet it’s still OK for men to cry, and I’ve seen them do it, after the battle, often with a beer, and sometimes even with others from their unit.

#10.11 His explanation makes sense to me more than other ones. I've said I always hated to let other see me cry- even as a child I always felt that it made me look weak. I had been too trusting in life and people would take advantage of that (no traumatic experience, just little episodes of betrayal and trickery built up over time) and I didn't want to show any way that I might be weaker than someone. By the time I was in middle school I had kept in my tears for so long I could no longer cry- I would automatically hold back the tears without trying and when I did try to cry I couldn't. I remember my therapist had to work with me to teach me how to let myself cry again.

10.13: I'm wondering if there is a biological correlation -- something to do with the fight or flight response in males and females. It's not like I WANT to cry in those moments...

If it's not too personal, how did your therapist teach you to cry? I have a son who finds it difficult to cry.

Well I don't know if it's "response in males and females" by nature or nurture. Apparently a lot of people don't realize this on the Vine, but I'm female- so I wouldn't know how to teach a male to cry.

My therapist basically worked with me for months making sure I felt comfortable and safe in the environment at her office and every once in a while reminded me of the importance of crying and that it had a real purpose. After I felt secure enough, when we hit on a painful topic (this whole time we were working through other issues) I was just able to let myself cry there knowing she wouldn't think me weaker for it. Eventually she introduced my parents to the environment and it was harder to cry in front of them so we repeated the process of making sure I felt safe and that my opinion/emotions were valued. Don't know if that helps or not.

LogicalAbusurdity -- My apology for assuming your were male -- I must have been projecting from Dale's post -- or just not paying attention. LOL

And thank you for sharing, it may come in useful with my son.

Loretta: Thanks, I'll definitely look for that study. I've often wondered why I'll cry when angry -- those moments when I feel like striking out, but my general nature tells me that's wrong.

I often feel like people are unaware of their accomplishments. Often we can make a huge difference in someone's life without realizing it. This is a stupid example, but I met a distant cousin when I was a teenager. 20 years later, I saw him again at a family reunion, and he said he remembered me, because I'd changed his life by introducing him to the musical group, Def Leppard -- and he was serious about it -- talked about it for a good 20 minutes. Life is funny like that.

10-14 The basic question, as I see it is choice. The fight or flight responses in animals is nature, basically, but with our superior intelligence and choice of free-will it becomes a nurture quality, totally determined by how much we have learned in various techniques throughout our lives. Sure the research studies done today will show variations of how males and females differ in their responses, but remember, throughout their lives the girls played with dolls and the boys with guns. That makes for a real significant control variable in gender perceptions of fight or flight.

The bottom line as I see it is, the more confidence we have in ourselves, the more choices we have. The more experienced we are with handling difficult situations, the more choices we have. The more practice we have at self-defense skills, the more choices we have. The more support we have from others that are in our corner, the more choices we have. The more skilled we are at detecting deception and fraud, the more choices we have.

I say, lets teach all our kids to become strong, self-reliant, and skillful individual thinkers when their young, and the chain of abuse will succumb to the Power of the People.

10.20 Dale: Good points, but I have to admit, I didn't play with dolls -- I played with guns and tractors (on a farm), and my conditioning isn't to fight or run -- I tend to freeze, get really pissed and then cry, which generally leaves my opposition confused or laughing, so I guess it works for me. LOL

And I agree that teaching skills is the answer for our kids.

etva- LOL- Thanks for that, but I've known some farm girls and when push comes to shove, I want to be on the girls team.

Loretta: It's so true -- I'm continually amazed at the resiliency of the human race. Years ago, I watched a 16-year old Bosnian girl use a hot frying pan to iron a dirty shirt (in preparation for a date with her boyfriend) -- while shells were hitting less than a mile away. Some of us were hiding under a table, but she was taking it all in stride. LOL

throughout their lives the girls played with dolls and the boys with guns.

Actually there was some study a while back that observed how young children (males and females) played with toys when given no instruction, random toys, and didn't have social conditioning. The study found that most often girls would coddle anything they had to play with and boys would turn anything they had to play with into some kind of weapon.

Instinct still plays a huge role in our lives. And there are times when you cannot overcome it (most notably fight or flight scenarios where your life is in imminent danger).

I played with dolls, I love horses, I played with the army men my brother had, did gymnasitics and taekwondo, I own multiple weapons and have always made sure I know how to defend myself. I kind of bridge the gap between men and women (and I always severed as a translator between my parents when they didn't understand what the other one meant.)

Yup.... Seen it myself. No matter how gender neutral you try to be, biochemistry will out.

Put a random group of young children, all raised as gender neutral as possible, in a room. Give them a couple of boxes of drinking straws and a pile of cotton balls. The girls will make houses and people. The boys will make weapons and siege engines. All on their own with no direction from anyone.

Now wait a minute, I did not draw a line in the sand here, I merely pointed out how powerful environmental influences are to our perspective view on things. It is not just one way or the other, but a combination of both. The genetic-gender tendencies of a female, blessed with estrogen, are natural-hormonal inclinations to nurture, bond-with, and rear the young. The genetic-gender tendencies of a male, cursed with testosterone, are natural-hormonal inclinations to fight and survive, in order to pass on the strongest seeds for procreation. (survival of the fittest) That is how we survived for over 500,000 years and it will always be with us, as a tendency on our behavior.

BUT, even more important than the hormonal tendencies on our behavior, are the powerful influences of imprinting and nurturing, along with all the positive lessons experienced while growing up. Through conditioning, observation, and experience, we learn discipline, empathy, perspective-control, and all the other humane-human qualities, so desired by society.

Narcissism vs. Empathy. - The perception-filter-lenses, that we view life through internally, tints how we perceive all of the external forces of the world around us and, just a tad-bit of negative thinking can distort that whole world-view and destroy our attitude, perception, and good behavior, if we allow it. The conditioning of our own free-will becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and there are so many environmental influences at work, molding and shaping our perceptions, that individual behavior will always be unique in and of itself.

10.29 Dale -- Wow, that's quite a post -- very deep. I had to read it a few times (7 actually) and take it apart to digest it, but I think I actually agree with you, though I couldn't have verbalized it that well.

I'm still thinking about the "conditioning of our own free will", but I think you're probably right, since I frequently find that my first reaction to something is a result of my upbringing, rather than what I truly believe as an adult.

Is that what you meant?

Loretta- ("And that women have always been warriors and hunters?")

LOL. You sure have your facts down, and I too know these facts to be true, by own experience with a gorilla. Please read these two short stories about my experiences as a 17 year old kid, that made me who I am today, in spirit. (True Stories) OK, three but they're short.

http://dale95.newsvine.com/_news/2010/04/08/4133418-standing-up-to-a-bully-can-be-empowering-

http://dale95.newsvine.com/_news/2010/04/08/4134248-a-leap-of-faith

http://dale95.newsvine.com/_news/2010/06/06/4470856-kindred-spirits-

etva- I wish I could express myself better, talking is so much easier, but yes, the imprinting of perception takes place at a very young age, in both animal and human, and it sets up ridged and fixed expectations of life, throughout life. Life is a journey of one day at a time and it's how we condition (commitment) ourselves to act today, is who we are this day. Life is a self-fulfilling prophecy made up of one day at a time. The good news is that if we fail and fall short today, tomorrow we just get back up, fix it, and do it again.

I wish I could express myself better

Dale: Oh my -- don't get better -- LOL -- it's already above my education level. GRIN

Seriously, it was very well written, it was just very deep and introspective, and at a college level (if that makes sense), and I haven't been in college for longer than I care to admit. I do, in fact, miss those days when I had to "think" about what I was reading, so I appreciated your post. As a single mom, I don't get to use adult speak very often. LOL

I'm going to check out the links you shared with Loretta, so maybe I'll find something else to challenge the mind. GRIN

the imprinting of perception takes place at a very young age

Somewhere I heard/read that everything that happens to you up until you're 10 determines who you are (not saying that you can't recondition yourself or that whatever that source was claimed that), or words to that effect.

Huh, maybe 10 was just a easier number to remember.

Well, maybe;-D

surprised to learn that depression was a disqualifier for "top secret".

I'm not surprised. The military doesn't understand a great deal about the mind. Yet, some of the past strategists: Napoleon, Hitler have dealt w depression and mental illness. Look what happened to them...

Probably to them, if someone who has depression problems knows top secret info but has lost the will to live- whats to stop them from letting out the top secret info?

Depression is treatable.

It really depends on the individual... Some r not, unfortunately.

Logical:

whats to stop them from letting out the top secret info?

Duty, Honor, Country... I know that may sound simplistic, yet, an oath is an oath. Commitment is still there. Ex cons get more respect then those that deal w depression... It is sickening:-(

people who are depressed also go on murder rampages

Yeah..... but people who go on murderous rampages have more than just depression issues.

@ #13.5

I'm not saying that is my belief, just speculating what they may think.

I'd say that, at the very least, those with depression who elect to stop their pain by hurting others have some sociopathic judgement issues on top of depression issues. So rarely do you get just one mental aberration or disorder in isolation. They seem to come in "sets". Like any recipe, different components in different proportions can result in a vastly different outcome.

I'm not at all saying the depressed folks are not capable or even likely to "snap" and "go postal" given the "right" set of conditions, just that it isn't a probable or inevitable outcome of even severe depression.

Millions suffer from depression, and only a few commit suicide or murder others.

Unfortunately, the press helps to continue negative stereotypes with headlines like: Bi-polar mother kills children, self. It's also a favorite subject in crime dramas. Somehow the illness becomes the headline or plotline.

You could probably make a case that anyone commiting a savage crime has an illness of some kind -- they may be a sociopath, a narcissist, have uncontrolled rage, or general paranoia. I'm not sure it matters, and it seems to rarely make a difference at the time of sentencing.

Continuing the stereotypes makes it that much more difficult for people to deal with their illness in a public way for fear of losing a job, being ridiculed, or treated differently by those they tell.

Loretta:

people who are depressed also go on murder rampages.

I'm sorry, but I'm gonna have to disagree w ya here, Loretta. What I am suggesting is that murderers who go on rampages *feign* depression. They then use that as a *legal* defense. Yet, clinical depression is a *medical* diagnosis and has *NO* business as a legal defense. I have been (in the past) diagnosed w major depression. I have not killed anyone. Does that help u understand how I come to my thinking on the subject.

If people not see any clues to mental illness in people who commit crimes, then why do they love to believe that the mentally ill are the primary people who are violent? Their own experience tells them otherwise.

It seems they love that bogeyman so they can pretend such misfortune won't befall them, that they don't have to worry because they don't hang out with or count themselves among the mentally ill.

I agree with that. People don't want to think things like that could happen so close to home. So they pin the negative stereotypes on someone with observable problems, and can therefore "identify" a threat and stay away. People don't want to hear about the quiet, friendly, neighbor who kills mercilessly and seemingly without cause or warning, so the media don't play up those stories as much. People will make up their fragile reality and cling to it even when experience says otherwise because their "reality" has a better outlook than the real world.

Do you remember the Atlanta Day Trading Murders?

Oh yeah... very tragic day. I've written a lot of suicide notes in my past. Some were just rants, while others were basically a plea for help to get me out of the h*ll of the depression. Yet, in so many cases I was not taken seriously by *family*. Yet, both parents have diagnosed medical issues. Yet, becuz Iwas the youngest, I was "looking for attention". That has been their mantra, since I was a kid.

People dealing w depression and those that r suicidal, *I* view, in two different categories. Those that *want* help (the depressed) v those who have lost all hope of any kind of help (suicidal).

Not sure if u remember Kip Kinkle. He shot and killed his parents then went on a shooting spree at the Thurston High School in Springfield, OR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kip_Kinkel. I understood his story... In some ways I felt he was me... Very uncomfortable feelings weld up when his story broke.

Even today I am battling suicidal ideations. Yet, I now know how to deal w those thoughts and keep myself safe. The depression just gets me really cranky... and jealous, cuz I know there r others out there that r just happy. The last time I was truly happy, was the day my daughter was born. She is truly awesome.

Loretta, I am *NOT* condoning what they (the murderers) did. I am just saying I understand both the depression side and the suicidal side of the cases. What I do see as a common link is that both saw no sign of help. It was ingored:-(

When u wrote of "triggered by the losses", it was if u were pointing a finger at me. I know of losses. The 5 steps of Grief r well known by me... And I'm tired of dealing w all of the stages (and the losses).

Victims of domestic violence may not only be the victim, but they may also be the impetus of the violence... in the mind of the attacker. The "victim" may perceive their actions as helpful... God knows my ex sure did. Yet, she was also verbally abusive. And unfortunately, my daughter picked up on that. It was not until she got out of that toxic environment that she understood things from a different perspective.

Did I harm my now ex... No. So, I understand ur point quite well. Self control also has something to do w a murderer, or a suicidal individual as well as a depressed individual.

I've never figured out why.

Well, that's easily explained. the "victim" is usually a *loser*. Whereas the abuser uses the victim as a doormat and stepstool on the way up the ladder of life... Been there, wipe ur feet, please...

The victim is conditioned to take it. Pound someone down enough different ways long enough and anyone will crack and start believing they deserve it. It's even easier when you're depressed and feel like crap from the inside, too.

That is a basic trait of any animal or human instinct, to side up with the winner. Nobody sides up with the underdogs, except maybe another underdog.

Loretta:

I don't understand those who support the abuser while blaming the victim.

Becuz the abuser is an accomplished *LIAR* and manipulator. The victim is usually way too trusting of an individual.

Underdogs United! Not a great name for a football club, but not half bad for recovering "losers".

When I look around at the pathetic winners in this world, it makes me proud to be an underdog.

I'll be in the stands...

I'll be in the stands...

Best not to participate in all of that if possible.

Sounds like people in an office.

Sounds like people, anywhere.