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"Daughters aren't to be independent. They're not to act outside the scope of their father. As long as they're under the authority of their fathers, fathers have the ability to nullify or not the oaths and the vows. Daughters can't just go out independently and say, 'I'm going to marry whoever I want.' No. The father has the ability to say, 'No, I'm sorry, that has to be approved by me.'"
Womanist Musings: The New Trend in Christian Patriarchy - Stay at Home Daughters
Seeded on Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:42 PM EST
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This was a recent quote from Doug Phillips, founder of the Vision Forum, a leading proponent of the Christian Patriarchy Movement.
Vision Forum Ministries is, according to its Statements of Doctrine, “committed to affirming the historic faith of Biblical Christianity,” with special attention to the historical faith found in the book of Genesis, when God created Eve as a “helper” to Adam. According to Christian Patriarchy, marriage bonds man (the symbol of Christ) to woman (the symbol of the Church). It’s a model that situates husbands and fathers in a position of absolute power: If a woman disobeys her “master,” whether father or husband, she’s defying God. Thus, women in the Christian Patriarchy Movement aren’t just stay-at-home mothers -- they’re stay-at-home daughters as well. And many of them wouldn’t have it any other way.
The stay-at-home-daughters movement, which is promoted by Vision Forum, encourages young girls and single women to forgo college and outside employment in favor of training as “keepers at home” until they marry. Young women pursuing their own ambitions and goals are viewed as selfish and anti-family; marriage is not a choice or one piece of a larger life plan, but the ultimate goal. Stay-at-home daughters spend their days learning “advanced homemaking” skills, such as cooking and sewing, and other skills that at one time were a necessity -- knitting, crocheting, soap- and candle-making. A father is considered his daughter’s authority until he transfers control to her husband
- 6 votes
#1 - Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:50 PM ESTWhen will the Evangelical, American Taliban, surrender to education, knowledge, enlightenment, let alone the 21st century?
- 5 votes
The stay-at-home-daughters movement, which is promoted by Vision Forum, encourages young girls and single women to forgo college and outside employment in favor of training as “keepers at home” until they marry.
Disturbing, it is really the only thing I can say at the moment. Simply disturbing and disgusting.
Thank you, though, for bringing this into my awareness.
- 6 votes
#2 - Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:02 PM ESTDisturbing is a mild word for it. I have to ask myself what's wrong with the men who need women to be slaves?
- 6 votes
Disturbing is a mild word for it. I have to ask myself what's wrong with the men who need women to be slaves?
Absolutely and that the potential of these women as people in this country is being so stifled is a terrible crime. I am a stay-at-home mother, but a well educated one and my children and my life are better for these things.
You raise a profound question of this terrible tragedy. What kind of mental issues would bring a man to see this as desirable or worse, preferable.
- 5 votes
People like that are psychopaths that are pretending to be religious so it gives them some cover or authority. A man with any self respect doesn't need to control a woman.
I'm happy with my loving wife. She's confident, smart and self sufficient. She stays with me and I with her because we're a team. We like and love each other. Short of a serious psychosis, I don't understand why would anyone want anything different.
- 6 votes
From my experiences of "chained" women of the 60's they were miserable. I also knew husbands that would not allow their wives to go shopping to the doctor's office or any place outside the home without permission and had to check in before they left the house and when they arrived back home. The man controlled every aspect of the woman's and his children's lives. I saw women unable to cope, children rebellious and out of control and men so tied up in arrogance and ego they were impossible to be around. I worked with one such man in the mid-seventies and almost everything coming out of his mouth pertaining to his wife or women made me want to puke.
This is an abomination if there ever was one.
- 5 votes
You would think if the mothers had to grow up that way, they would want better lives for their daughters.
Doesn't the Bible say a few things on how to treat children? I don't think this is what Christ had in mind.
- 5 votes
#3 - Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:52 AM ESTThe Bible says plenty about a man's right to abuse his children, especially the daughter. Keep in mind that a daughter was sold into "marriage" right after she reaches menarche, so a virgin daughter is preteen. Since the daughter had no choice in "marriage," she was being sold into sexual slavery and raped repeatedly for the rest of her life. But a father could also sell her into actual slavery and she could never be freed:
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
And then there's Lot, who offered his preteen daughters to a mob to be gang raped and then later raped them himself. For this, he was called righteous:
6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.” Genesis 19:6 (NIV)
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab[a]; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi[b]; he is the father of the Ammonites[c] of today. Genesis 19:30-38 (NIV)
9And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. Leviticus 21:9 (KJV)
If a man rapes a betrothed daughter, she is stoned:
23If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you. Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (KJV)
A girl who is raped must marry her rapist:
28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (KJV)
16And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 17If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. Exodus 22:16-17 (KJV) (entice/lie = rape, so a daughter is required to marry her rapist)
A daughter could be stoned for simply talking back:
17And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. Exodus 21:17 (KJV)
15And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. Exodus 21:15 (KJV)
24He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Proverbs 13:24 (KJV)
15Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Proverbs 22:15 (KJV)
13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Proverbs 23:13 (KJV)
And then there’s the father who sticks his finger inside his daughter to be sure she’s a virgin before marriage. He breaks her hymen and preserves her blood on a cloth, just in case her husband decides to claim she wasn’t a virgin. If the father can’t produce the bloody cloth, the daughter is stoned to death after the father turns her in to the town council for not being a virgin.
13If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,
14And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
15Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
16And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
17And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
18And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
19And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
20But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. Deuteronomy 22:13-21 (KJV)
- 4 votes
Great points. But did God actually speak to these men or was it their ignorance and arrogance that influenced them to write such things?
Did Christ see things the way the Old Testament writers did. I don't think so.
- 4 votes
This was men writing what suited them to write. Unfortunately, their phallusies are adversely impacting our society in every way.
Yeshua was a feminist. He elevated and empowered women in every way.
But these men are not looking to his empowerment of women. They're looking at the OT in order to pretend their sick misogyny has some kind of godly basis.
- 5 votes
Women have good minds of their own but why wouldn't she want to listen to her Father?and perhaps guide him with her mother nature.
- 1 vote
#4 - Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:51 AM ESTThere's a difference between listening to your father and being under his complete control. A child should mind assuredly listen to their parents, but the what they're suggesting is akin to slavery.
- 3 votes
Yeah who would be a women when their spirit is burdened by religious beliefs to control, best if they could get to know their father as a person It is a wild word out there you can never know the dept of an others mind maybe that is why rules are made, to mindset.
- 1 vote
When I was growing up in the 40's and 50's breaking the spirit of a daughter was a father's duty. A spirited woman was big trouble and could not find a man wanting her and was doomed to a live of loneliness and solitude. Independent women were as popular as a gay or lesbian or a person of "color". There are so many of these completely blind religious fanatics in our country and around the world still trying to drag us back to the 1800's and before. It is sickening. Women and savages need to be controlled!
- 3 votes
#5 - Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:21 PM ESTElsewhere, they quote a document from the pro-patriarchy website Fathers for Life that states that the “prime purposes of feminism are to establish a lesbian-socialist republic and to dismantle the family unit,” echoing Pat Robertson’s notorious statement that feminism is a “socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.”
Let me prepare my cackle....Eeeeeehhehehehehe, hehehehehehehehehheeee, hehehehehehhe!!! Gimme a break!
- 5 votes
#6 - Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 PM ESTTru dat, jmom...OMG! I think it is most likely "typical" unfortunately.
- 3 votes
Quite true Loretta. Child abuse is not ok at any time no matter what you think or believe.
- 2 votes
What they are doing to their daughters and sons should definately be considered abuse...if not neglect!
I hope my son does not bring home a girl who only wants to be his servant...YIKES!!!!
- 2 votes
No kidding jmom. I have a 32 year-old son and he's on his third serious relationship. The two prior are wonderful young women and I love them dearly but they are so dependent upon their parents and so intimidated by their mothers that the relationships finally tanked. My son still sees both women and keeps in touch with them but they have a heap of trouble in their lives. The young woman he is with now has a mom that is controlling opinionated and kind of whacko sounding. However this young woman seems to have a handle on this. I was raised with a really whacked out mother bless her twisted religious heart so I get what's going on. I think my son is getting experience in "mother-in-law" profiling at least. I am the type that when my children take wings I cheer them on. I can't imagine wanting to control another human anyway as it just seems ludicrous.
- 3 votes
Haha...
"mother-in-law" profiling
...in-law profiling is very important. Now I know the consulting business I should open up...thanks for the inspiration!!!
- 5 votes
No kidding jmom think of how lucrative it could be? I had three trying mother-in-laws that ruled the roost and had father-in-laws with tails between their legs that barked like junkyard dogs. My daughter scored the same. She's been married 21 years and when the mother-in-law calls it is to tell her off gripe and whine. She told me the other day, "That's it I'm getting caller ID so when she calls I'll pretend I wasn't around". That is so sad to me and I'm glad no one wants to hide when I call.
My twenty year old granddaughter told a friend "I have two grandmas. One is open to everything and keeps up on what is going on. The other just asks, "Did you read your bible" and begins rattling on about herself and her many woes".
- 3 votes
With today's increase in helicopter parenting, this may become a very lucrative business...inlaw profiling.
I am the type that when my children take wings I cheer them on. I can't imagine wanting to control another human anyway as it just seems ludicrous
That is awesome!!!
My daughter scored the same. She's been married 21 years and when the mother-in-law calls it is to tell her off gripe and whine.
It is a pity people act this way, they are missing out on the potential for great relationships! My mom-in-law is the mother my mother never or was or could be and I am really grateful for that!!
- 2 votes
I guess there is an advantage of being knocked around and abused half your life because for me I don't want anything to do with it. I treat everyone the way I want to be treated even though sometimes it isn't easy.
I am happy you have a great mom-in-law No One, what a blessing.
- 3 votes
I am happy you have a great mom-in-law No One, what a blessing.
It is, she is very healing as my own mom was abused and carried that cycle forward...lots of therapy and soul searching taught me I was breaking that cycle. like you said -
I guess there is an advantage of being knocked around and abused half your life because for me I don't want anything to do with it.
- 2 votes
We could offer training courses on how to be the best in-law. Example 1: The mother-in-law you should be. Example 2: The mother-in-law you are currently...BTW no one likes you..
To all the mother-in-laws out there...I don't mean you, only the bad ones. *wink* ;)
- 3 votes
Loretta, if I may, I was trying to post article to you for this discussion. But it seems that I don't have the skills to accomplish this. So I will let you know where to find it and I believe that it will make an interesting discussion point and perhaps give some a different viewpoint. ''Native American Women past, present and future''. I know that your much better then I at doing the posting, seeding etc thing, so I will leave it in your good hands.
Waanakiwin (peace)
- 2 votes
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